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ACICV Future

 
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Pilakia
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: ACICV Future Reply with quote

Quo  vadis

 ACICV was formed by a group of friends who served together and wanted to continue the associations formed in times of stress and travail,  so I believe.  We know Army Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) went out of business, as a separate Army organization, in the early 1960’s.

 The CIC missions did not disappear, they were blended into the branch.  This solved many problems on both sides.  Before  there was resentment in the Army intelligence “community” that CIC was, and considered themselves to be, an elite force.  In many ways it was.  On the other hand, CIC personnel, lacking an organizational structure compatible to the Army’s TO&Es, saw little or no possibilities for advancement in their chosen career field.  Witness many senior  counterintelligence positions, staff and command, filled by other branch Regular officers.

 It is a hard fact that we lose ten times the number of members as we recruit every year.   This past year, for the first time, I was directly involved in recruitment due to the Reunion announcements I placed  in various veterans’ publications. Most of the contacts I made were post or near post-CIC; still they responded.
 
 This leads me to believe that there is a number of folks who would join ACICV but don’t, necessarily, identify with the Army Counterintelligence Corps, per se.  They had the MOS but not the affiliation.  Personally I am a ‘transition” case.  Probably thanks to Millard Dougherty I was accepted for CIC, based on two years service and two years of college, in 1956.  When the Branch was activated I was Chief, Counterintelligence Special Operations, G2, 7th Army.  Ed Tarbutton gave me my first set of ‘Shafted Rose” insignia.  I continued as a counterintelligence Agent/Officer until I retired in 1974.

I understand and support the basis forACICV.  My young years I heard the names of Millard Dougherty, O.K. Colson, Don Dipple, Jim Failey, Andy Venters, Al Bagot, Walt Petrie and many others with something approaching awe and was proud to be part of CIC.  Later, I learned to know and respect Art Halligan, John Blotzer, Paul Ill, Spadey Koyama, even Bernie Sweeney, Mr Bloch, “Mo” Muurray and John Byrne.   Charles Akimoto, Ernie Harai, Bob Frazier,Ed  Hartman, I worked with them all.  

 My dilemna now is the future.  I totally support the group that says “I was CIC” , I was too and proud of it.  I totally understand the feeling of post-CIC people, same MOS, similiar missions, different title.   I was too and proud of it. Many are now at age where they would like to share experiences, meet some of the legends, belong.

In Branson we signed up John Schaffstall’s son-in-law as an Associate Member.  This young man was assigned to Special Operations, 902d Military Intelligence Group.  He wasn’t in CIC.

 This seems very wrong to me.  The CIC, as such, no longer exists and each Reunion reminds us that we are fading away.  My Great-Uncle belonged to the Traildrivers’ Association and the Rough Riders’ Association.  All did a MacArthur and  faded away.  Recently the Pearl Harbor Survivors organization decided not to meet anymore.  The famous 442d RCT may have gone bankrupt because of shrinking membership.

I’m 80 years old, younger than many.  I thoroughly enjoy our local Chapter  brunchs and our annual Reunions.  I would like to see a continuation of our special bond but I don’t know how it will come about.  I will appreciate your advice, comments, suggestions, criticisms and/or remarks.

Best Regards,
Bill Ward


 omg = Obama Must Go
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Pilakia
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:17 pm    Post subject: ACICV Fuure - More Reply with quote

Although there are more precincts to be heard from, let's agree that last man or woman left turn out the lights.  I guess my basic concern was/is does the organization go forward?  I thought there could be a problem when several of the respondents to the Reunion announcements served after the Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) ceased to exist.  I'm very proud of my CIC service, ringing doorbells in south Georgia, teaching at Holabird,chasing bad guys in Germany.  


Do we put bowlegs in ARMY COUNTERINTELLIGENCE (CORPS) VETERANs for newcomers?  ALMOST ARMY COUNTERINtELLIGENCE CORPS VETERANS?

Personally I'm happy to identify with the heroes I've met in ACICV as I've said before..  I'm also proud to be among those who came later and had to deal with Image Interpreters and Order of Battle guys in supervisory position and still got the job done.  In some ways this was more difficult.



ACICV rolls to the inevitable end; spawning an ancillary organization for those have served in the Shadow of the Sphinx?  How about that?

Best Regards,

Bill Ward
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Kenneth Minton
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Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: 1965-1975 service period Reply with quote

I served in MI from 1965 to 1975, with the period 1968 to 1975 being in a Counterintelligence Agent MOS.  It is true, the Counterintelligence Corps, or its previous structure, I think called the Corps of Counterintelligence Police, did not exist.  That said, I conducted background investigations, in CONUS and coordinated with the FBI on counterintelligence threats.  In Vietnam, my CI team ran an agent net, did village seals with the infantry, where the CI agents interrogated Viet Cong infrastructure personnel, did base camp security, including screening local nationals.  We also conducted security investigations and IG type inspections.  We were involved in the Phoenix Program.   We liasoned with the Vietnames National Police, the ARVN S-2s, the SF, and worked with the psychological warfare teams, on Medcaps, looking for information.  We had an agent net to collect information on the local guerrilla and NVA forces.  In Germany, as CI agents, we conducted investigations. worked on OPSEC, tryed to track the Bader-Meinhof gang, worked with other intel organizations, etc.  What I'm trying to get at is agents, after the Counterintelligence Corps was merged with Military Intelligence, in USAINTC, did the type of varied work agents have always done.
While I spent the last 14 1/2 years of my career as a CID agent, I look back fondly to my time in counterintelligence.  If the ACICV limits itself to only those who served in the seperate CIC, then it certainly is doomed to disappear, and that would be a very sad thing.  When I go Army CIDAA functions, it makes no difference whether the person served as a CID agent, before CID became a seperate command (ie: Part of the MP Corps, in MP units), or whether the individual served a CID agent in the current structure.  A CID agent is a CID agent.  Just as CI agent is a CI agent, whether he served in the CIC as a seperate agency, or whether he served/serves under the umbrella of military intelligence.
At least that's how I feel about it.  While I'm active in the Gulf Coast Chapter, I haven't been able to attend any of the ACICV national meetings, so please forgive me for adding my two cents.  While I was never in the CIC as a seperate agency, I proudly wore the blue and gold patch, with the Spinhx and sun rays, while in the 109th MI Group and the 111th MI Group.  I also loved my time with the 1st MI Detachment - Counterintelligence Team 3, Lai Khe, Vietnam, and the 205th MI Det, in the V Corps Counterintelligence Section.

Fraternally,
Ken Minton
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Pilakia
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Membership Reply with quote

Earlier I reported receiving 10+ queries in response to our Reunion announcements.  Today, 5 June, I got another call- I handed him off to Ted Critchfield, V-P Everything (membership).  In researching I found AR 381-20, THE ARMY COUNTRINTELLIGENCE PROGRAM, dated 1993.  In Wikipedia I found this

"A U.S. Army Counterintelligence Special Agent, also known by its Military Occupational Specialty code 35L (formerly 97B - CI Agent), is a specialty in the United States Army. It is one of the U.S. Army's two "golden badge" agents (the other being CID Special Agents - see: United States Army Criminal Investigation Command for more information). CID Special Agents (31D) are specifically law enforcement, whilst Counterintelligence Special Agents (35L) investigate only national security crimes (espionage, treason, sedition, subversion, etc.). In other branches of the military, these two types of federal agencies are combined (NCIS for the Navy/Marine Corps, and OSI for the Air Force). However, given the large size of the U.S. Army—as well as—other logistical concerns, the Army opted to keep these two separate, even though joint CID/CI investigations do happen periodically. In addition, CI Special Agents often work closely with Human Intelligence Collectors (HUMINT, MOS 35M) to accomplish their missions. Field CI Agents are typically of the rank of E5/SGT, E6/SSG, E7/SFC, warrant officers, and civilian special agents (through the MICECP program).
This is not an entry level U.S. Army job. To apply for the program, you must receive a command level recommendation, be a minimum rank of an E4/Specialist promotable (will not be a fully credentialed agent until attaining the rank of E5/Sergeant), have a flawless background, and be able to obtain a Top Secret clearance with SCI (Sensitive Compartmented Information). It also helps (but is not required) to have some related experience in either another military intelligence MOS, civilian intelligence, or law enforcement. "

What, if anything, do we do with these folk?
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Pilakia
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This message will be posted on the ACICV website; please post your comments there.

Following is extracted from AR 381-20, The Army Counterintelligence Program.  I believe there is a later, classified, version, similar.

"a. Mission. The Army will conduct aggressive, comprehensive, and coordinated counterintelligence activities worldwide, to detect, identify, assess, and counter, neutralize, or exploit the intelligence collection efforts, other intelligence activities, sabotage, subversion, sedition, terrorist activities, and assassination efforts of foreign powers, organizations, or persons directed against Department of the Army (DA) or DOD personnel, information, materiel, and activities. This mission will be accomplished during peacetime and all levels of conflict."

From a very reliable source (A-1) here is a summaryof the missions of the Army Counterintelligence Corps.

  "The Mission.

       I do not know the mission of the present counterintelligence units but let me add the tasks laid out for the CIC.

   1. An active program to determine any disaffection or subversive activity within the army
   2. Searching out Nazis  and Kempa Tai at the end of WWII.
   3. Searching out Communists in occupied areas after WWII.
   4. Apprehending hostile line crossers during and after hostilities and locating guerrilla units during hostile action.
   5. Actively aiding in the security of dignitaries.
   6. Screening of dislocated persons for entry into the US.
  7. Screening of refugees from the Hungarian uprising before and after.
   8. Searching out the illegal importing of weapons into friendly countries.
   9. Mounting aggressive programs into hostile organizations.
 10. Lastly. Getting a  new mattress for the Presidents wife.

   Hurriedly, this is a small listing of the tasks done by the CIC. There are many more that come to mind. If these are conducted by today's counterintelligence, then the mission is the same. "

In researching contemporary ARs and FMs  that are available, I came to the conclusion that the lingo has changed, oversight has become a big issue and all that is lacking is
                    THE ARMY COUNTERINTELLIGENCE CORPS.
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Pilakia
Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This an add-om after THE ARMY COUNTERINTELLIGENCE CORPS
I hope I have made it very clear I have no argument whatsoever with limiting membership in ACICV to those who actually served in CIC.  As I've said before, I stepped in CIC and stepped out MI.  I propose a continuation of an organization made of veterans and spouses (spice?) who served in Army counterintelligence or HUMINT  MOS's.   I hope such an organization would evolve from ACICV; a successor in camaraderie,a social organization, a "hearty band of brothers" (and sisters) from the Shadow of the Sphinx
I'm quite willing to spend some time on this idea if it is accepted.  If it is not, I'll try to develop the Shadow concept outside ACICV.


Regards,
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Kenneth Minton
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Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: ACICV Reply with quote

Brothers and sisters, I know you can't be bashful, as I've never met a shy Counterintelligence Agent. Smile   This is your organization and many of you have much more in time, money, and emotional involvement in it.  Please add your input.  Ozzie is a great webmaster and he, and others, have created a super website.   This forum allows everyone and opportunity to put your thoughts and ideas out front.
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Pilakia
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Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: ACICV - Membership Reply with quote

The following should quell any questions as to full memeship.  The future is a mystery.  Good going, Ken.
Bill Ward


ACICV BY-LAWS, Art III,PRPOSE AND ACTIVITIES, Sec 1,sub sec a.
"     a.  To promote comradeship and fun for former U.S. Army Counter Intelligence (sic)personnel and Army Intelligence Corps members (Enlisted,Warrant Officer,Officer,Department of the Army civilian), their spouses and widows, through reunions and meeting activities...."

Art IV, Membership, Sec 2.
"  Section 2.  Those persons eligible to apply for full membership are: U.S. citizens (Enlisted, Warrant Officer, Officer, Department of the Army civiliam)who have served honorably as a member od the Corps of Intelligence Police, The Counter Intelligence (sic) Corps, or as a Counterintelligence Specialist, in the Armed Forces of the U.S. and were honorably discharged or retired or have completed comparable civilian service honorably, their spouses and widow(er)s, subject to the approval of the Board of Directors.

AGENT REPORT #101, SUMMER 2012, PAGE 24

"ACICV MEMBERSHIP

Eligibility : Full Membership
[/b]  Membership is open to any United States citizen who has served honorably as a member of the Corps of Intelligence Police (CIP), The Counter Intelligence (sic) Corps(CIC), U.S. Army, or as a Counter intelligence Specialist of Army Intelligence, or commanded or served with sucha unit and who was honorably discharged or retired from the service.  Spouses,widows and children are encouraged to apply."
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